21 replies to this topic

[PilatesHB]

Recently I've been teaching new students in a few new places and some of my regulars have been taking classes at other studios (I've suggested that as a way to learn new styles) and I am hearing this over and over "Your class is so different." Or, "The other teacher is so different". Okay...this is where I am confused so help me out. I've been trained in both classical and Polestar. I've taken workshops and classes in Stott, Fletcher, PhysicalMind, Power Pilates...and you name it. I have dvds from Romana, Peter Fiasca, John Garey...You name it. I really don't see how other teachers assuming they are well trained and versatile can be that different. I almost feel like they are teaching Pilates on the Step or Hi/Lo Pilates. Are we teaching to BPMs these days???

I supposed I should be flattered because I know my classes are much closer to what Pilates really ought to be, but I wonder what other teachers are doing in their class? I even asked my clients to be more specific and they really couldn't give me an answer.

Does anyone know what's going on? Is it turning into a different type of movement? I also wonder if when I take other classes and the instructors know I am a teacher...if they tone it down a bit. I've yet to see anything personally that is that far fetched or out there, but I know it's out there.

Just asking.

[pilates07]

Hi PilatesHB, I have heard the same thing many times as well, and for a time I was a student of the teachers whom I was told I was different from, so here's where I saw the differences (this may or may not be the same for you):

I rarely if ever discuss muscles, the others teachers often talked about PFM, transversus, obliques, glutes, etc.....

I use as close to the ideal forms of the exercises as possible from day 1, but with a slow steady progression to the ideal. The other teachers taught fundamental exercises (the physio-type ones such as pelvic tilts/rocking, knee floats/folds, clams, etc.) as a course before teaching the classical whole body exercises. Once they were introduced, the classes became, in my mind, fitness classes based on the Pilates exercises, rather than a focused progression... kinda like going 0 to 60 in under a minute

Regardless of experience, I teach the order from the Hundred to Push Ups (modifying for need, or to add in a fundamental/body exploration to teach a particular movement pattern/feeling that will be needed in the next exercise, dependant upon the theme of the lesson, be it centerline, heel/seat connection, rib/scap connection, etc). The other teachers used fundamentals as mentioned above or in more advanced levels as warm ups at the beginning of class, sometimes 10-15 minutes worth, with yoga-type stretches at the end, in between there was rarely a cohesive order that could be anticipated and prepared for mentally or with a coordinated transition. Often times, the Hundred(s) ("just an ab exercise") was taught as late as 30+ minutes into a one hour class!!

Just some thoughts... none of these differences many clients would be able to articulate.. Indeed it was well into my teacher training that I was able to articulate the differences myself

Cheers!

[Tea]

I noticed a dramatic difference between a reformer group class based on Peak class compared with my Romana's training, which did not (at the time of my training in 2008) support any "reformer group classes" at all.

For example, after the 100, Peak reformer level I does reach and pull, arm circles and tricep press before Frog. I was amazed to see these arms added after my Romana's never mentioned arms on the reformer only the cadillac. Another example I noticed is Peak included Mermaid in their level I mat, and Romana has Mermaid in their advanced mat routine

I have also noticed clashing differences between master instructors within Romana's training


Just as human beings differ greatly so does the Pilates training.

[Pilates Core]

In my experience, what they're reacting to is the personal teaching style of the instructors rather than the work itself. I also get told that my workouts are "different", "harder", whatever, when I'm really just teaching the same excises as everyone else.

[LouiseT]

In my experience, what they're reacting to is the personal teaching style of the instructors rather than the work itself. I also get told that my workouts are "different", "harder", whatever, when I'm really just teaching the same excises as everyone else.

Tea, Peak has the armwork from the cadillac in their reformer workout to address those that do not have a cadillac or wall unit available to them,not to indicated that this is part of the original order. This it to enable some semblance of classical progression. If you have access to a fully equipped studio you would remove them from the reformer work out and slot them on the cadillac or wall unit.

[Carole Amend]

Hi PilatesHB..great topic!
When my son was little, I'd ask him, "How was school today?" He'd just say "Fine," unless I asked specific questions…"What did you like best today?" "What did you learn from Ms. Young today?" "Did you like your lunch?" "What did you do at recess?"

Back then, I didn't get out there much to take other people's classes. I still don't. Besides talking w/other teachers, my window in to this issue is, mostly, through my clients. I always say how much I learn from my clients; this is one of those areas of learning. And, I've learned that clients need guidance in knowing how to answer.

Clients offer feedback, without prompting from me, because they are ruminating to figure out the "difference" within themselves. If they bring it up, I take time after the session to speak with them. The first thing I ask is "How many people were in the class?" then usually "What did you do…did the exercises look the same?" and "How did you feel after?" Also, "Did you get corrections?"—that's usually the big topic. In a class of 20, you're just not going to get the same feedback as in a private.

As soon as I can in the conversation, I bring the client's awareness to the questions above, which brings the conversation out of the realm of personality, style, and experience of the different teachers, allowing the client to focus in on his/her own experience. That's when we begin developing and deepening our relationship…through the work, which is always the main topic of conversation.

This can be an intimate process; proper boundaries are important to the client's practice, and, also, to our learning as teachers. Privates allow clients to get to understand what they might look for and how to take care of themselves in a larger class situation. I encourage clients to take privates with other teachers; they soon get that it's not necessarily about the teacher or even the moves, it's about their own process. They do also learn, though, that some teachers are only taught how to train, not to have what I call a reciprocal, embodied conversation with their clients. Teaching people at that level of awareness is what I love best…and of course, that I keep to a progression towards the original work, asap, goes without saying.

[ol-rocker]

Carole, thank you for your post -- I've been ruminating on this subject for some time, and some of your questions helped me to clarify my thinking about it.

It certainly can be very difficult to separate personality and style from the overall experience of the workout. The questions you pose regarding what the client experiences are an important key to moving the conversation beyond whose Pilates is better or more authentic.

I am also intrigued by your reference to knowing how to train vs. having a "reciprocal, embodied conversation" with clients. This sounds to me like an important distinction in how communication takes place within the context of a session. And difficult to know whether it is a matter of training or personality. I can say that sometimes as a client I don't feel comfortable raising questions during my workout; after all, aren't I paying the instructor for their expertise? The instructor has devoted hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to their training, so who am I as a practitioner to question why they have me lying on a foam roller, which I never did in my first five years practicing Pilates? Or why they keep referring to the order of exercises, but we rarely actually DO the exercises in order?

I think I have a pretty good knowledge and practice of intermediate-level classical work; but it has been the experience of a different "flavor" of classical Pilates that has helped me to begin to develop a vocabulary for describing what I know/don't know. Among the different flavors of classical Pilates I have experienced some pretty significant differences in tempo, transitions, hand positions, foot positions, verbal cues, and emphasis on breathing. Some exercises have different names. This is my limited experience: two styles of classical Pilates that are perhaps "first cousins" to each other. Indeed, they are very different!

What this means to my own practice in the long run, I need more time to process.

What is a BPM?

[throwtoy]

I teach at a gym and i hear that my classes are different too. Usually that I'm harder than the other instructors. I think since many are in a gym setting they are used to some group instructors not really knowing how to teach a proper class after a 2 hr workshop and doing the whole class with them, not correcting or modifying or not teaching to the whole class.

One gal mentioned how different I do the side kick series and single leg circles. She was totally tilted forward, hips curled under and leg not staying at hip height so i was making adjustments on her. For single leg circle she was making this HUGE circle and hips rolling all about and crossing the leg to the floor on the opposite side of the body when crossing. I've not done that even in Advanced classes I take so not sure about that one. Maybe i just don't know it.

I may be different to some, but i'm picky and want my students to be safe and feel successful. They keep coming back and many bring guests so I must be doing something right.


BPM is Beats per minute and yes there are some folks out there who DO do that. I've found that in some gyms along with classes not really being a pilates class but a fusion class which is fine as long as you don't call it pilates. It gives people a false sense of what it truly is.

Edited by throwtoy, 08 December 2010 - 05:31 AM.

[PilatesHB]

[

BPM is Beats per minute and yes there are some folks out there who DO do that. I've found that in some gyms along with classes not really being a pilates class but a fusion class which is fine as long as you don't call it pilates. It gives people a false sense of what it truly is.


Thanks everyone for the great replies. My process is to take as many classes as I can so I can see what other instructors are doing. Unfortunately, you can only do so much of that and run a business of your own. This weekend, for example, I am taking a two hour workshop in Long Beach with John Garey of Stott.

I also have a theory. Many people have commented that Pilates just isn't hard enough for them. This is something I've heard when talking to what I call 'Type A' Gym rats or hard core runners. These are not people who've worked with me but people who I have met along the way. I always tell them to come see me and they may change their mind. So..back to my theory. Because there have been a lot of poorly trained instructors out there teaching in gyms or even studios, many got the wrong impression of Pilates. So...in order to keep it popular and keep the money rolling in (and let's face it, you need clients and students to stay open)they changed The Method. They changed Pilates to make it more what people wanted it to be.

BPMs comes from the fitness world.. Beat per minute. So when you teach step you have a certain speed you should adhere to in order to keep it safe. It's a pounding beat to keep students moving and sweating. It doesn't work, IMO in Pilates.

Thanks again...this really helped.

[PilatesHB]

In my experience, what they're reacting to is the personal teaching style of the instructors rather than the work itself. I also get told that my workouts are "different", "harder", whatever, when I'm really just teaching the same excises as everyone else.

Yeah...I think you are right. Cuing and personality really do make a class seem different.

[ol-rocker]

For single leg circle she was making this HUGE circle and hips rolling all about and crossing the leg to the floor on the opposite side of the body when crossing.

BPM is Beats per minute and yes there are some folks out there who DO do that. I've found that in some gyms along with classes not really being a pilates class but a fusion class which is fine as long as you don't call it pilates. It gives people a false sense of what it truly is.

I have taken classes with people who teach single leg circles that way. They claim that everyone else is teaching it wrong, because in the pictures in Return to Life it shows Joe rolling his hips like that. I'm guessing that this is one of those exercises that has evolved over time for different reasons and that is why you have people teaching it different ways.

Beats per minute -- of course! I have not encountered that in a Pilates context so I was confused.

[taowave]

Interesting..Would you elaborate a bit on the clashing differences??

I havent found much variation,then again, I dont get out much:)

I am open to almost any approach,but I think if the flow/tempo slows down,the effectiveness of the Pilates method is compromised.

I have also noticed clashing differences between master instructors within Romana's training

[LAville]

teaching big classes in a gym is a totally different experience from teaching in a Pilates studio. Many of the gym/aerobic instructors get a weekend certification in which music is used as it usually is in fitness classes. They get trained to listen to the music and teach to the BPM..(beats per minute) and they use those teaching tools and apply it to Pilates as well.

The gym population is also used to working out to music and having that 8 count to set the tempo of the exercises, and they are accustomed to hearing that strong bass beat to drive the energy of the class.

Teaching Pilates in that setting is challenging and I think that the personality of the instructor plays a bigger role in class attendance then class content.

I know a really good instructor who has only a few people, ( she does not use music and is classically trained) while a not very good instructor who uses music and is really not teaching any Pilates exercies I ever saw has a packed class.

[Carole Amend]

Hi ol-rocker,
Thanks for ruminating and discussing this further.
Short answer:
As a paying client, you have every right to ask me whatever questions you need to ask for your own practice, process, and even safety. You, as the client, pay me for my expertise, but I cannot fully do my job without feedback from you. My job is to draw out your innate brilliance, not to impress you with mine. I cannot build a bridge between my professional expertise and your innate brilliance, if I do not know where you are in your consciousness. If you don't have an idea how to relate that, then I consider it my job to assist you in that process.

Teaching/communicating in a reciprocal environment absolutely has to do with my education, not my personality. I have learned from experience how to not only train clients (tell them what to do) and to model (demonstrate), but, to also instruct (which involves teaching theory) and facilitate (which involves asking questions and learning about the client's process and goals...thus, reciprocal learning). Each of those ways of teaching involves a different type of client/teacher relationship agreement. Each of those ways is towards an intent of greater mind/body integration (embodiment) for the client, however, the teacher is also forever changed in and by the process of teaching.

[PilatesHB]

teaching big classes in a gym is a totally different experience from teaching in a Pilates studio. Many of the gym/aerobic instructors get a weekend certification in which music is used as it usually is in fitness classes. They get trained to listen to the music and teach to the BPM..(beats per minute) and they use those teaching tools and apply it to Pilates as well.

The gym population is also used to working out to music and having that 8 count to set the tempo of the exercises, and they are accustomed to hearing that strong bass beat to drive the energy of the class.

Teaching Pilates in that setting is challenging and I think that the personality of the instructor plays a bigger role in class attendance then class content.

I know a really good instructor who has only a few people, ( she does not use music and is classically trained) while a not very good instructor who uses music and is really not teaching any Pilates exercies I ever saw has a packed class.>>

Yes! All very true. This used to bother me and probably still does but not as much as before. Why? Because as an instructor I was judged by the size of my class. I suppose if I owned my own gym I would judge instructors by how much revenue they brought even if class size or popularity may have nothing to do with training. When pressured to increase class size in order to keep your job, one almost feels like the are compromising their style in an attempt to gain a bigger audience. I suppose that would be true in many professions.

Edited by Pilates Core, 09 December 2010 - 09:02 AM.
Fixed quote

[pilates07]

As a paying client, you have every right to ask me whatever questions you need to ask for your own practice, process, and even safety. You, as the client, pay me for my expertise, but I cannot fully do my job without feedback from you. My job is to draw out your innate brilliance, not to impress you with mine. I cannot build a bridge between my professional expertise and your innate brilliance, if I do not know where you are in your consciousness. If you don't have an idea how to relate that, then I consider it my job to assist you in that process.

Not that Carole needs my thumbs up, but agreed agreed agreed! I try to remind my clients that I do not have x-ray vision and there is only so much I can see (not that seeing is necessarily everything......), I cannot feel what you feel, I don't know what you don't know, unless you tell me...... a lesson is not about the teacher's performance but your learning experience, and communication is imperative for a successful learning experience. Unfortunately, I think we are as a society in the mindset of just doing what we're told (learned from our own experiences at home and at school, no doubt), and certainly in a group class most are not going to ask questions, even if they want to. It is most definitely the responsibility of a good teacher to encourage clients to communicate, and investigate ways to make that happen in a way the client is comfortable with. The environment of the lesson and the personality of the teacher will have a lot to do with this.

[Carole Amend]

Not that Carole needs my thumbs up, but agreed agreed agreed!

Um, well, actually, I don't need it, but it sure is nice to get a thumbs up sometimes! The feedback I get is mostly from clients, which is great, and I do know what works for me, but, it's nice to know that other teachers/enthusiasts might agree and besides, I just enjoy hearing other viewpoints. I'm always open to learning.
So...thanks. : )
I say the same thing about x-ray vision, and I also say I'm not a psychic mind reader. : ) I am trained to watch the body in time and space, and to teach how and what to observe and do.

Btw, ol-rocker, (if you don't mind my asking) have you shared with your teachers that you are aware of "...differences in tempo, transitions, hand positions, foot positions, verbal cues, and emphasis on breathing" "...among the different flavors* of classical Pilates..."? Did you have that discussion with them? Imo, they'd be lucky to either be given that feedback (if they don't know of classical the way you were taught in your first five years), or to have the opportunity to work with a client already so knowledgeable. : )

*I like that term!

[ol-rocker]

Btw, ol-rocker, (if you don't mind my asking) have you shared with your teachers that you are aware of "...differences in tempo, transitions, hand positions, foot positions, verbal cues, and emphasis on breathing" "...among the different flavors* of classical Pilates..."? Did you have that discussion with them? Imo, they'd be lucky to either be given that feedback (if they don't know of classical the way you were taught in your first five years), or to have the opportunity to work with a client already so knowledgeable. : )

Of course I don't mind your asking

I think the response varies, depending on whether I am in a private lesson or small group lesson, and by individual instructor. In a private lesson I really do feel that it is MY time and there is more opportunity for that dialogue to develop. With one instructor in particular I've exchanged information about the differences in how some exercises are performed, and have touched on the idea of different masters passing on the version of the exercise that they learned, that was appropriate for their bodies. But then it is challenging to move into the "why" of it all. One example, I learned to do footwork (4) -tendon stretch ("stretch-rise") with my heels together. But in this lineage, the exercise is taught with feet parallel. In our discussions we recognize that neither is incorrect -- after all, we can see on the Romana Legacy DVDs that individuals are performing the exercise both ways. But probably more due to time constraints than anything else, we haven't gotten into the "why" of it. So we have the beginnings of a good dialogue, and we'll see where it goes.

I have not yet had a discussion with anyone about verbal cues, because the more I experience, I think it must be the most complex of all things to compare and discuss, because I cannot see the same things my teacher sees. For example, I'm someone who finds cues involving muscle names very confusing; I can identify the muscles on an anatomy chart, but not always sure what I should be feeling/doing when an instructor uses a muscle name to cue an exercise. But tell me to "scoop" or "grow taller" or do any number of things with my hip, and I understand. I have chalked this up to an area where I could develop more awareness.

With some instructors, and particularly in group classes, it is more challenging to open up the dialogue. I make an effort to do the exercises as they are taught in this studio. When I do find myself reflexively doing something in the style of my old studio, it is generally viewed as something to be corrected. I went through a period of indecision, when I first started working out at this studio, whether I would get what I needed out of it. And I realized that I had to accept what they had to teach and get what I can out of it, or not have studio time at all. Otherwise I would just be dissatified all the time. Every program has its strengths, so I am taking the opportunity to learn what I can here and incorporate it into my personal practice.

By the same token, I believe it must be a monumental step for any instructor to look outside of their first training program for continuing education and enrichment. It is the nature of training programs to market themselves as the best. So once you have invested much time and money in the best, what could the others possibly have to offer?

At this time I feel it's best not to press the issue. I wonder if my presence will plant a seed of curiosity that will just take a long time to germinate.

Of course, maybe in the long run all that matters is that everyone does the best they can with the tools they have.

Edited by ol-rocker, 10 December 2010 - 03:27 PM.

[gaile]

"By the same token, I believe it must be a monumental step for any instructor to look outside of their first training program for continuing education and enrichment. It is the nature of training programs to market themselves as the best. So once you have invested much time and money in the best, what could the others possibly have to offer? "

There you have the difference between a great instructor and a good instructor.No one program has it all.My experience of working with different teachers is that all have a different perspective within the classical framework and every piece of knowledge I gain lets me unlock another body that maybe hasnt responded to what I know so far.The more you work with the method the more you realise how each person really was taught for their body and then they went and spread that training but you need all those different pieces to figure out wha tis the best version for the client in front of you or to solve a problem thats been bugging you.Your orginal studio solved my clicking hip and so now I can solve my clients clicking hip from that experience and so it goes on.

I have teachers from other programs come to me and of course they do some things slightly differently and I dont see that as something to be solved but rather to question why and what the logiv behind it is and to whom it might be appropriate to teach it that way.

To make Pilates "hard" whether group or private you have to really understand Pilates,all the little nuances and to practise in your body continously so you can give that to your clients.The best feedback Ive ever had was from someone who has been with me 8 years and said that she has never been bored in all that time because it never gets easier.Thats what I love about Pilates and if I can give that to someone else Im a happy teacher

[PilatesHB]

Lovely answer Gaile.