[DancingPilatesMama]

I had heard about a studio with classes that include Pilates, yoga and ballet barre. My sister raves about it and I am a curious one and like to see what's out there so I tried a class today. I have to say that I didn't really like it. I will go at least two more times since I bought an intro package but it was totally different than I expected. In my opinion, it lacked fluidity, flow and stretch. There were mostly static poses and many repetitions of the same exercises. My muscles were cramping and my neck and back were getting overly tired and started to ache. I consider myself to have a strong powerhouse but my joints were in pain much of the time. It gave me an even greater appreciation for traditional Pilates. I have been lethargic and sore all day but when I do a Pilates workout I am energized and feel that I can take on the world. I wonder if it is just me? This was a very popular class. Perhaps because I don't do much yoga is why I struggled. I am not knocking the class or style, but I don't think it fits my body. Have any of you tried some other form of movement that just didn't work for you?

[banana]

In Aus, many gyms are overrun with Les Mills classes, one of which is called Body Balance. This is a fusion of Pilates, Yoga and Tai Chi all in a one hour format. I went to try one as I hate to diss something without experiencing it and hated it.(no flow, little technique etc) I wouldn't go again but am amazed at just how popular these classes are. I can't decide whether it is a good thing as at least people out there are having a type of mind body experience or whether this type of class does more harm than good. (many intructors have limited knowledge of each discipline). I am interested in others thoghts as well.

[PilatesTCI]

I have also been consistently disappointed by fusion classes, and I agree that most of the fusion teachers know way too little about each discipline to effectively flow them together. Plus, as our resident yoga teacher Andrea and I always laugh about, "they are different!"

The only modes that I find conducive to combining are Pilates and body weight strength training, Pilates and kettlebells, and Pilates and TRX suspension training. And even these I won't combine in a group class, but in private training. If you have never tried TRX I highly recommend that you do.

[Tom Floyd]

I ordered a TRX on Friday! I won't combine it with Pilates, but there's nothing wrong with cross training.

Also, I get "Athletic Business," a magazine on the business side of training. This month's issue is mostly about safety issues and avoiding litigation. According to that publication, core exercises that require balance (stability balls, etc.) are the most prone to result in an accident. I'm guessing TRX would fall into that category. So, it's nothing you would want to do with a beginning client or someone with physical limitations.

[DancingPilatesMama]

PilatesTCI, on 18 July 2010 - 04:18 AM, said:

I have also been consistently disappointed by fusion classes, and I agree that most of the fusion teachers know way too little about each discipline to effectively flow them together. Plus, as our resident yoga teacher Andrea and I always laugh about, "they are different!"

The only modes that I find conducive to combining are Pilates and body weight strength training, Pilates and kettlebells, and Pilates and TRX suspension training. And even these I won't combine in a group class, but in private training. If you have never tried TRX I highly recommend that you do.

Actually, I have a friend who is very into TRX. I will check it out. Thanks!

[DancingPilatesMama]

I have to agree that there is a lack of training in many of these fusion type classes. Some teachers are churned out too quickly in my opinion. I do think it is nice that so many formats are including Pilates-based exercises. If it gets people to strengthen their cores in at least some way, that is better than nothing. It's just unfortunate that so many people don't really understand what Pilates is. I see the method as a puzzle and if you just do bits and pieces of it, it's like random puzzle pieces that might look cool on their own, but don't make any sense. It's when you see the whole picture that your body and life change.

[PilatesHB]

You know what I think? These classes tend to be popular because 1) they are trendy 2)the people 'feel the burn' 3)they think they can get a complete fun workout in a short period of time.

Pilates was trendy for awhile but it isn't anymore. I don't think Pilates gives clients 'the burn' or that real soreness feeling they might experience in other classes so some people don't like it. Of course there are a lot of people who love Pilates and will take it forever and ever, but I don't think it will ever draw the huge numbers that say..a Bikram yoga class will or any other trend. The good news is that it will be around for a lot longer than many other more trendy disciplines.

[PilatesHB]

You know what I think? These classes tend to be popular because 1) they are trendy 2)the people 'feel the burn' 3)they think they can get a complete fun workout in a short period of time.

Pilates was trendy for awhile but it isn't anymore. I don't think Pilates gives clients 'the burn' or that real soreness feeling they might experience in other classes so some people don't like it. Of course there are a lot of people who love Pilates and will take it forever and ever, but I don't think it will ever draw the huge numbers that say..a Bikram yoga class will or any other trend. The good news is that it will be around for a lot longer than many other more trendy disciplines.

[DancingPilatesMama]

PilatesHB, on 18 July 2010 - 03:55 PM, said:

You know what I think? These classes tend to be popular because 1) they are trendy 2)the people 'feel the burn' 3)they think they can get a complete fun workout in a short period of time.

Pilates was trendy for awhile but it isn't anymore. I don't think Pilates gives clients 'the burn' or that real soreness feeling they might experience in other classes so some people don't like it. Of course there are a lot of people who love Pilates and will take it forever and ever, but I don't think it will ever draw the huge numbers that say..a Bikram yoga class will or any other trend. The good news is that it will be around for a lot longer than many other more trendy disciplines.

Very well said and I have to agree with you. I have had people tell me that they don't feel like they have gotten a good workout unless they are in pain for several days following. As we all here know, that's not necessary.

[Pilates Core]

I like fusion classes, but I don't go to them expecting to get the same experience I get from Pilates.

[DancingPilatesMama]

Pilates Core, on 18 July 2010 - 07:09 PM, said:

I like fusion classes, but I don't go to them expecting to get the same experience I get from Pilates.

I never expected to get the same experience I do from Pilates but I did expect to like it since I have been doing both dance and Pilates for ages. I didn't see much that resembled a traditional ballet barre or Pilates in the class.

[PilatesTCI]

Tom Floyd, on 18 July 2010 - 06:37 AM, said:

I ordered a TRX on Friday! I won't combine it with Pilates, but there's nothing wrong with cross training.

Also, I get "Athletic Business," a magazine on the business side of training. This month's issue is mostly about safety issues and avoiding litigation. According to that publication, core exercises that require balance (stability balls, etc.) are the most prone to result in an accident. I'm guessing TRX would fall into that category. So, it's nothing you would want to do with a beginning client or someone with physical limitations.

Actually, there are many solid beginning exercises with the TRX that anyone can do - closed kinetic chain with support. I teach a lot of rehab work at Parrot Cay and everyone does fine!

[lydia]

sometimes i have people "mention" that in my class the feeling is more calm and more like a moving meditation. sometimes they don't realize just how hard they've worked until they walk out and it hits them. one of them said she wasn't getting as good of a workout because she wasn't overwhelmingly sore the next day. this thinking is unfortunate, i don't know how to change it. people in america really do believe they need to murder themselves to get exercise.

my classes are challenging, but i'm not murdering people and making them sore for 3 days.

as for the fusion, it sounds awful. like a bootcamp or bastardized version of sorts. additionally, i've had classes mess up my "chi". some classes or instructors do that and those are classes to avoid, IMO. one instructor was a well know and well studied pilates instructor. when i trained with her i went to physical therapy 6 times, it just wasn't a good fit, period.

finding the right teacher is critical.

[fitdiva2007]

I'll give another perspective, as one who loves pilates but teaches a pilates/ballet fusion class. I think that if you're a purist, then you should definitely attend classes that consist of one discipline. I do think, though, that barre classes require a different mindset than pure pilates. There is the same mindfulness and attention to detail, but good form is completely different. Even if you're used to movement and dance, there is a learning curve to these classes that can be a bit steep. It's the same thing with pilates--there is such a fine line between doing an exercise well and just doing choreography. The same way your joints can hurt with less than optimal form (or a less than optimal teacher!) the same can be said for pilates. I tend to do lots of variations on exercises, so that everyone can feel that they're working at their level, for that day or that moment (LOL). Modifications are key with these types of classes, or any type of class, frankly.

As for me--I don't want my classes to be hobbling the next day, but helping them to dig deep and feel the work (which might translate as 'burn' to some) is just fine with me! (Am I the only one who still shakes while doing the abdominal series of 5???) My goal is to help them find the connections that make working hard possible, rather than just sailing through exercises that they think are 'easy'. What frustrates me in the health club environment is how people think pilates is boring, when there are so many exercises in the repertoire!!!! Rather than get too upset, I try really hard to introduce people to pilates principles and exercises and the work in a way that makes them want to learn more about the 'real' stuff! I think we as pilates instructors have to be really careful in how we talk about and approach this type of stuff. Having a holier than thou attitude about fusion can result in folks getting turned off by what we have to offer. That said, I wish my place of employment offered more pure pilates classes. Even the pilates classes on the schedule often consist of other things like yoga. Frankly when I do pilates, I want to do straight up pilates! (And when I want fusion, I want fusion!) I think both types of workouts give me something very different mentally and physically, and I'm glad I have them in my skill set.

That said, when it comes to barre classes like Exhale Core Fusion, P57, Bar Method (the current hot thing!), most of them might include one or two that vaguely look like pilates, there are very few that really show a strong pilates influence. All of these are Lotte Berk derived, with some differences (e.g. Exhale has a strong yoga focus and emphasis on 'stillness' and P57 focuses more on the 'burn' and cardio effect and doesn't stretch as long). For a different take on this genre, I like Andrea Rogers' class, Xtend. Andrea is Romana-trained, and her class focuses on not only the Lotte Berk exercises (plies, etc), but also a bit of ballet center work, pilates standing work, etc. Really good stuff.

Other fusion instructors that I like (on dvd)--Kari Anderson (former ballet dancer and fitness instructor who put out Angles, Lines and Curves and REACH) and James D'Silva (while Trudie Styler's Core Strength Pilates is really a mix of pilates, gyrokenesis and yoga, I think the hip stretches he adds after the side kick series are something that frankly the repertoire could use!) I also love Jules Benson's Total Core Pilates. It's a very rhythmic take on pilates that a lot of folks who don't like traditional pilates love. Everything really flows and her take on pilates works, IMO. It's not for purists, again, but you definitely walk away feeling like you get something good out of it.

Finallly, TRX is fabulous! I definitely was a LOT stronger after a 6-week bootcamp than before! It works my center in ways that pilates doesn't and visa versa. I think it's a great tool to have (isn't Alycea Ungaro bringing a lot of this into her studio?) I am planning to get certified in this in the fall and would love to teach a pilates/TRX class. However, I think that in this instance, the two disciplines are best kept separate.

Just my two cents!

This post has been edited by fitdiva2007: 19 July 2010 - 12:49 PM

[DancingPilatesMama]

fitdiva2007, on 19 July 2010 - 01:45 PM, said:

I'll give another perspective, as one who loves pilates but teaches a pilates/ballet fusion class. I think that if you're a purist, then you should definitely attend classes that consist of one discipline. I do think, though, that barre classes require a different mindset than pure pilates. There is the same mindfulness and attention to detail, but good form is completely different. Even if you're used to movement and dance, there is a learning curve to these classes that can be a bit steep. It's the same thing with pilates--there is such a fine line between doing an exercise well and just doing choreography. The same way your joints can hurt with less than optimal form (or a less than optimal teacher!) the same can be said for pilates. I tend to do lots of variations on exercises, so that everyone can feel that they're working at their level, for that day or that moment (LOL). Modifications are key with these types of classes, or any type of class, frankly.

As for me--I don't want my classes to be hobbling the next day, but helping them to dig deep and feel the work (which might translate as 'burn' to some) is just fine with me! (Am I the only one who still shakes while doing the abdominal series of 5???) My goal is to help them find the connections that make working hard possible, rather than just sailing through exercises that they think are 'easy'. What frustrates me in the health club environment is how people think pilates is boring, when there are so many exercises in the repertoire!!!! Rather than get too upset, I try really hard to introduce people to pilates principles and exercises and the work in a way that makes them want to learn more about the 'real' stuff! I think we as pilates instructors have to be really careful in how we talk about and approach this type of stuff. Having a holier than thou attitude about fusion can result in folks getting turned off by what we have to offer. That said, I wish my place of employment offered more pure pilates classes. Even the pilates classes on the schedule often consist of other things like yoga. Frankly when I do pilates, I want to do straight up pilates! (And when I want fusion, I want fusion!) I think both types of workouts give me something very different mentally and physically, and I'm glad I have them in my skill set.

That said, when it comes to barre classes like Exhale Core Fusion, P57, Bar Method (the current hot thing!), most of them might include one or two that vaguely look like pilates, there are very few that really show a strong pilates influence. All of these are Lotte Berk derived, with some differences (e.g. Exhale has a strong yoga focus and emphasis on 'stillness' and P57 focuses more on the 'burn' and cardio effect and doesn't stretch as long). For a different take on this genre, I like Andrea Rogers' class, Xtend. Andrea is Romana-trained, and her class focuses on not only the Lotte Berk exercises (plies, etc), but also a bit of ballet center work, pilates standing work, etc. Really good stuff.

Other fusion instructors that I like (on dvd)--Kari Anderson (former ballet dancer and fitness instructor who put out Angles, Lines and Curves and REACH) and James D'Silva (while Trudie Styler's Core Strength Pilates is really a mix of pilates, gyrokenesis and yoga, I think the hip stretches he adds after the side kick series are something that frankly the repertoire could use!) I also love Jules Benson's Total Core Pilates. It's a very rhythmic take on pilates that a lot of folks who don't like traditional pilates love. Everything really flows and her take on pilates works, IMO. It's not for purists, again, but you definitely walk away feeling like you get something good out of it.

Finallly, TRX is fabulous! I definitely was a LOT stronger after a 6-week bootcamp than before! It works my center in ways that pilates doesn't and visa versa. I think it's a great tool to have (isn't Alycea Ungaro bringing a lot of this into her studio?) I am planning to get certified in this in the fall and would love to teach a pilates/TRX class. However, I think that in this instance, the two disciplines are best kept separate.

Just my two cents!

I hope I didn't come across as holier than thou. I wasn't trying to and this is perhaps yet another example of my thoughts being lost in translation. Sorry about that! I think that if fusion works for people, and obviously it does based on the success I am seeing, that's great! I do consider myself to be a purist when it comes to Pilates but as a dance teacher I fuse various styles. I suppose that if I am seeking a true ballet barre, I need to get my butt back to ballet class. I appreciate your knowledge and feedback. I am really not a snob, even if I seem to come across that way in some of my posts.

[PilatesSpaceFlorida]

That said, when it comes to barre classes like Exhale Core Fusion, P57, Bar Method (the current hot thing!), most of them might include one or two that vaguely look like pilates, there are very few that really show a strong pilates influence. All of these are Lotte Berk derived, with some differences (e.g. Exhale has a strong yoga focus and emphasis on 'stillness' and P57 focuses more on the 'burn' and cardio effect and doesn't stretch as long). For a different take on this genre, I like Andrea Rogers' class, Xtend. Andrea is Romana-trained, aclass focuses on not only the Lotte Berk exercises (plies, etc), but also a bit of ballet center work, pilates standing work, etc. Really good stuff.
[/quote]

Not to bash a local instructor, but Andrea Rogers is definitely not Romana- trained nor has she, as to my knowledge, ever claimed she is.

[fitdiva2007]

PilatesSpaceFlorida, on 19 July 2010 - 06:20 PM, said:

Not to bash a local instructor, but Andrea Rogers is definitely not Romana- trained nor has she, as to my knowledge, ever claimed she is.

I misstated that, I apologize. (I don't think it's bashing to correct an incorrect statement!) I thought she was Romana trained, but she is classically trained instructor (not sure which school).

This post has been edited by fitdiva2007: 20 July 2010 - 03:49 AM

[Tobfitisit]

Hi Everyone..I feel I need to add my two cents, at least in reference to the Les Mills classes. By the way, I think TRX is a great workout, and any way you can move the body in various planes, whether it is Gyro, Pilates, TRX, barre, etc..it's all good...I agree that for the purist, fusion classes are not for you. I think clubs need to be very clear on what a class isn't and is...Now, for my Les Mills rant. LOL. Where I work, and work out...I teach Spin, Pilates with Props, Yoga and Forza. Les Mills has come into our gym and overtaken just about the whole schedule with RPM (version of spin), Body Pump, Body Flow (Tai Chi, Yoga and Pilates), Body Attack and Body Combat...

They are taking people off of the street, without a stitch of anatomy knowledge or an understanding of injury prevention and having them regurgitate choreography and dialogue...people are getting injured in these classes where I walk by and see rounded backs during a bent over row, shoulders up by the ears during a squat and I could go on and on...

Les Mills is just a marketing scheme for club owners to get run of the mill classes at a lower cost...lower quality instructors that don't check form, are told not to get off of the stage..the whole thing makes me sick. I work really hard developing music and choreography that works, flows with movement with integrity...I care very passionately that my class participants are safe, have proper form and have some fun too...Les Mills is such a disappointing program IMO....just cranking out inexperienced "kill em til they drop" attitude...unnecessary and dangerous...

Have a great weekend everyone...stay true to your profession and keep up the great work...Blessings...

[mkjspins]

Tom you will love the TRX! I think it's a great complement to Pilates! From what I can tell from Facebook, Alycea Ungaro is adding TRX training at her studio.